At Sanctus 1 this week, our groups looked at four news stories, and asked probing* questions about the media's attitude to religion.
The stories were:
- Shambo the TB-infected bull and the battle by Welsh Hindus to save the sacred animal;
- The Roman Catholic archdiocese of Los Angeles paying out hundreds of millions of pounds to sexual abuse victims;
- A teenager losing her fight to wear a saving-sex-for-marriage ring in school;
- A gay youth worker winning a tribunal case against the Church Of England.
Personally, I'm glad the catholics are paying out to the poor victims. I'm delighted the youth worker has exposed the church's appalling attitude to gay people. I'm pleased the teenager has lost her "right" to flout school policy. I think I'm happy about Shambo being saved, but then again I'm not a farmer.
However, my fellow Sanctimonian and occasional train buddy Myn made a good point when we were chatting about this yesterday: Why, oh why, oh why are all the Christian stories to do with sex?
Have we not enlightened ourselves? Are we still so nervous as a religion about the Bible and, um, you know, naughty stuff? Is it safe yet for me to remove my chastity belt?
*no innuendo intended, honest
10 comments:
regarding the gay youth worker, it's my understanding that he was denied a job (with the church) b/c of his sexuality. seeing as how homosexuality is specifically mentioned as a sin in the Bible, what's wrong with him being denied a job with the church? now, perhaps i'm missing part of the story...i don't know all the details. so am i missing an important part of the story, or are you saying it's not okay for a church to deny someone a job when he or she doesn't believe something that the church does?
Eyan, I don't think it will ever be safe for you to take off your chastity belt.
Is it too Oprah to say "because we obviously still have issues"?
Rhea,
I see what you're saying, but I think you have made assumptions:
(a) you say it's right to deny someone a job because they have sinned.
But we are all sinners. Unless you count homosexuality as a "special" sin worthy of job discrimination.
Remember homosexuality is hardly ever mentioned in the Bible, a couple of passages at most, and even these are disputed by many people in the church. Certainly Jesus didn't see it worthy of any comment at all.
(b) you seem to suggest it is only okay for a church to employ someone if they sign up to everything the church believes.
I know plenty of people who work for a church but have some kind of disagreement with some aspect; that's natural.
You just seem to put homosexuality on some kind of pedestal, and I worry your comments could be seen as saying gay people are not welcome in the church.
Gay Christians are often forced to make a decision between the church and their sexuality. And most ditch the church (which I did until, wow, I found Sanctus 1).
I hope I haven't become a hypocrite and made my own assumptions about you or your comment! I'd be happy to read your further thoughts.
Don't I remember a survey from some years ago in which (made up figures due to not having photographic memory) 43% of Anglican priests didn't believe in the literal truth of the Resurrection and something like 95% were a bit dubious about the virgin birth?
The gist of what I'm trying to say is that most of the priests who responded to the survey were unable to say that they fully and unconditionally accepted the truth of everything the Bible says happened.
Would anyone have defended the church if they're refused the youth worker because he was black? Same thing.
It is in fact illegal to do so.. and also it's a thoroughly biblical principle IMO - Jesus was never seen to discriminate in that way.. in fact quite the opposite (much to the annoyance of the religious authorities of the time).
That's not to say we can't try to correct things we see as wrong but it should be done from a basis of an existing friendship & acknowledgement of the other person, not out of some pseudo moral crusade generated by the daily mail.
I simply cannot find anywhere in the bible where it says 'hate those that are different from us, look a bit shifty, or disagree with us'. Been looking for ages.. perhaps someone ripped that page out of mine?
Roland,
I appreciated the fact that you took the time to reply to my comment...thanks :-)
I definitely don't think of homosexuality as some "special" sin. It actually annoys the snot out of me when Christians try to make it out as the worst sin ever. That said, I do believe that it's a sin, and should be treated as such. There must be a sort of "middle ground" that has to be reached.
As far as denying someone a job because they have sinned, I don't think that's right, but I DO think that it's acceptable to deny someone a job within a church who is currently engaging in sinful behavior while at the same time DENYING it's sinful behavior (or someone who engaged in sinful behavior in the past and no longer does, but again, DENIES that it was ever sinful).
I also don't think that an individual has to to agree with every little thing that their denomination believes in order to be a part of that denomination. I actually don't believe/agree 100% with everything that the denomination that I belong to teaches. That said, I'm also not in any position of authority in that denomination. And I DO believe that it would be okay for the denomination that I belong to to NOT hire me for a job simply because I disagreed with something that the church taught.
I definitely don't want to imply that gay people (or drug addicts, or single moms, or redheads, or teachers, or whoever)is not welcome in the church. I firmly believe that Jesus welcomes EVERYBODY. But I also believe that Jesus calls us to change. I believe that homosexuality is sin because of what the Bible says about it, and I believe that Jesus has called us to repent (turn away from our sin) and follow Him. Sin is sin, whether it's homosexuality or lying or murder or coveting...they all lead to death. I think that the issue with homosexuality today is that too many people are not acknowldeging it as sin, like they do with lying, murder, and coveting.
I hope this clears up some of what I believe, Roland. Have a blessed day!! :-)
So you're saying that someone doesn't have to agree with everything the church teaches but then say it's OK to deny someone a job because they don't believe the same things that you do about homosexuality?
That's to put one sin over another. It's the old church position that because it's about sex it's somehow different.
In fact few churches take the extreme position the homosexuality itself is sinful. The whole area is a huge mess of debate beyond that - I believe the Church of England is in a bit of a holding pattern over it.. and it won't be resolved for years probably.
Compare to something only really resolved recently.. the whole ordination of women issue. Same problem. Two extremes - with one side arguing that the role of women is to make tea, have babies, and on the odd occasion be witnesses to the resurrection, and the other side not seeing the problem. A church refusing to employ a woman as a youth leader simply because she was female would quite rightly be slapped down hard. I really don't see why homosexuality is different, and neither does the rest of society hence the discrimination laws we have in this country.
Tony,
I think that you either misread or misundterstood what I wrote. I said that it's okay to belong to a church and not agree 100% with everything that church (or denomination teaches), BUT, I also said that if you don't agree 100% with what that church/denomination teaches, I think that it's perfectly acceptable for that organization to deny you a job. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I've started something here, haven't I?
If someone is refused a job by an organization because they do not believe in 100% of the organization's beliefs, that organization should be prosecuted as this is by and large illegal.
Churches should not be exempt from the law.
There is an argument for refusing someone a job because of a poor 'team fit' (I can't imagine, for example, employing a Satanist to work in my Christian bookshop if it meant my staff team going on strike and all my customers deserting me!).
But that argument is perhaps relevant to core Christian values like the deity of Christ, the cross and ressurection, etc.
It certainly shouldn't apply to 'side issues' of social conscience, such as, in this case, sexuality.
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